Discourse, 3 October 1841, as Reported by Willard Richards

  • Source Note
  • Historical Introduction

Document Transcript

Saviors shall come up on Mt Zion &.— what is it. &&— To preach only? No. In every dispensation something else to do beside pr◊◊ do all— neglect the for the dead.— Cant that man enter into the fullness of his rest? [illegible] cannot be saviors of man upon any any other principle than by re’ving revelation of all the things To trace our family by geneoloy [genealogy] & Rev— 1st principles of the Gospel no more to the B[aptism] for the Dead. then the dimist [dimmest] Star is to the Glo[r]y of Yonder Son. All the kindred from the days of Adam dow[n] upon that princple, Universalism is nothing. Jesus contemplated &.— Jesus went as minstering angel Spirits— according to what men do fame in the flesh & live &c— Jesus could not have eneterd & if he had not done this work. Paul— not be made perferct.— Jesus ministry spirit & & angel— Spirits of Just men made perfect & command a co of angels— spirits & bodies translated— spirits— minister to spirits— angels to angels— translated bodies cannot enter into rest— till instructed <​by them who had the ​> John you shall instruct or prophecy.— prophets rose at the Resurrection— [p. 1]
Jesus went with his body & Spirit—
Dispensation of fulness &c— all dispensations— things before since the world.—
go to Books [illegible] Almighty god rend the vails Said Doctrine incredible— why any more incredible that God should save the Dead after the [illegible]? men never is to ad living or Dead to service the Gospel.— in or out of the world. unpardonable sin— sin this world or the world
Spirits after the dissolution of the body— God is bound to fall of that Soul.— on Earth &c— seal of for my father.— sealed in heaven.— Books opened— of I get my father name Entered. seal him though. &c— 2. Sons born alike— one dies character alike— tomorrow Gospel come.— M. Brunstons Negros Generation where did Sectarians get their Doctrine.— from heathen refuse— brayed common sense out of the world.— Mahomet, Juyomet, Toroyes Doctrines.— Old Joe— [illegible] of this thesis— Blasphemy— voice of God from heavens.— creeds of men.— why so tenacous are the mormons? old wine, mend bottles &. New Rev in old churches— old Sadness Presbytrian— into a new church— drawn ga◊◊ for charity— man gone to flames of hell [p. 2]
[Text in top third portion of page 3 is illegible]
born of water by proxy— A man is judged according to [2 words illegible]
Pulling them out of the fire—
Martin Luther & .
2d. acts— no Holy Ghost
of the fullness of times which reveals in that dispensations all those dispensat[ions] all things not before revealed— Adam did not attend to his progenitors <​partriarchal​>— Eligah [illegible] Israel out of the groves. by the Keys what Paul did not.— hearts of the children to their fathers &c— &— all things attended to from Adam down— every genten [generation] that have rejected the children fathers must be denied. with [2 words illegible] fathers— Baptismal font Geneoly the Dead neglected their dead. doc◊◊◊ed [3 words illegible] [p. 3]
[illegible] days [illegible] attend to [illegible] just men Spirit of [3 words illegible] of angels— [illegible] the reaping [illegible] of angels— false spirits.— [illegible] of just men made perfect— Angels [illegible].— [2 words illegible] death [2 words illegible]
[4 words illegible] prepare your [illegible].— Do [2 words illegible] a man has a perfect Right to be [illegible] by any man who is a kin to him [4 words illegible] if he can [illegible] to Adam [4 words illegible] 144 [illegible]— pray God send spirits & angels to inform them Pray God <​for others​> [illegible] of your hands [illegible] you.— Be . not without
[4 words illegible].— angels [4 words illegible] seek out [4 words illegible] general [p. 4] [illegible] held here until ye hold it in my [3/4 page blank] [p. 5]


  1. 1

    See Obadiah 1:21.  

  2. 2

    See Minutes and Discourse, 3–5 Oct. 1840; and Revelation, 19 Jan. 1841 [D&C 124:29–32].  

  3. 3

    This may be a reference to Christian Universalism, which taught that regardless of action, all human souls would ultimately be saved and reconciled with God because of His divine love and mercy. (See Skinner, Series of Sermons, 209; Hatch, Democratization of American Christianity, 41; and Holifield, Theology in America, chap. 10.)  

    Skinner, Otis A. A Series of Sermons in Defence of the Doctrine of Universal Salvation. Boston: Abel Tompkins, 1842.

    Hatch, Nathan O. The Democratization of American Christianity. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1989.

    Holifield, E. Brooks. Theology in America: Christian Thought from the Age of the Puritans to the Civil War. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2003.

  4. 4

    See 1 Peter 3:19.  

  5. 5

    See Hebrews 12:23; and Vision, 16 Feb. 1832 [D&C 76:69].  

  6. 6

    An instruction on priesthood given in October 1840 discussed the doctrine of translation. (See Instruction on Priesthood, ca. 5 Oct. 1840.)  

  7. 7

    See Matthew 27:52–53; and Book of Mormon, 1830 ed., 187–188, 503 [Mosiah 15:21–22; 3 Nephi 23:9–12].  

  8. 8

    See Matthew 16:19.  

  9. 9

    See Revelation 20:12.  

  10. 10

    This may be a reference to JS’s brother Alvin, who died before JS recorded having received knowledge about the kingdoms of glory. (See Visions, 21 Jan. 1836 [D&C 137:5].)  

  11. 11

    In a March 1838 document entitled “Motto of the Church of Christ of Latterday Saints,” JS and others similarly wrote, “Wo to tyrants, Mobs, Aristocracy, Anarchy and Toryism.” The use of Tory or Toryism in the motto referred to sympathizing with a group’s enemies and may have the same connotation here. (See Motto, ca. 16 or 17 Mar. 1838; and “Tory,” and “Toryism,” in American Dictionary.)  

    An American Dictionary of the English Language; Exhibiting the Origin, Orthography, Pronunciation, and Definitions of Words. Edited by Noah Webster. New York: Harper and Brothers, 1845.

  12. 12

    See Matthew 9:17; Mark 2:22; and Luke 5:37.  

  13. 13

    Martin Luther was a German theologian who opposed the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings and emerged as a central figure in the Protestant Reformation of the early 1500s. Alexander Campbell led a sizable religious group in the United States known as the Disciples of Christ. Campbell was an ardent opponent of JS and the teachings of the Latter-day Saint faith. (Bainton, Here I Stand, chap. 4; Brady, German Histories, 146–152; “Delusions,” Millennial Harbinger, 7 Feb. 1831, 85–95; Campbell, Delusions, 6–11; Letter to Oliver Cowdery, 24 Sept. 1834.)  

    Brady, Thomas A., Jr. German Histories in the Age of Reformations, 1400–1650. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2009.

    Millennial Harbinger. Bethany, VA. Jan. 1830–Dec. 1870.

    Campbell, Alexander. Delusions. An Analysis of the Book of Mormon; with an Examination of Its Internal and External Evidences, and a Refutation of Its Pretences to Divine Authority. Boston: Benjamin H. Greene, 1832.

  14. 14

    This likely refers to the second chapter of Acts in the New Testament, which contains verses about the gift of the Holy Ghost.  

  15. 15

    See Ephesians 1:10; and Revelation, 19 Jan. 1841 [D&C 124:41].  

  16. 16

    See Malachi 4:5; and Visions, 3 Apr. 1836 [D&C 110:13–16].  

  17. 17

    The printed version of this discourse clarifies, “Those saints who neglect it”—meaning baptism for the dead—“in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at the peril of their own salvation.” (Minutes and Discourse, 1–5 Oct. 1841.)  

  18. 18

    In accordance with instruction given in a January 1841 revelation, JS announced, “There shall be no more baptisms for the dead, until the ordinance can be attended to in the font of the Lord’s House,” referring to the Nauvoo temple, “and the church shall not hold another general conference, until they can meet in said house.” (Minutes and Discourse, 1–5 Oct. 1841; see also Revelation, 19 Jan. 1841 [D&C 124:29–32].)